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Well, It Is With Great Sadness...
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Havlicek
Dps24 Guru


Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 8164
Location: East Hampton, NY

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:50 am    Post subject: Well, It Is With Great Sadness... Reply with quote

...that I have sold my DPS24. Payment has been made and "she" will be shipping out soon. Without hesitation, I can say this is the greatest piece of technology I have ever had the pleasure of working with/on. I can't think of a single piece of consumer tech since the DPS24 came out that can rival it's longevity, performance and all these years later, it's continuing relevance. I will be forced now to figure out how to record to computer directly, but selling the machine is the only way I could motivate myself to do so. I just couldn't see putting in the effort when the machine was staring at me with that "come hither" look. Really, being able to record 24 tracks as 24 bit uncompressed .wavs (and virtually unlimited tracks with some easy methods), mix and even do some mastering-type stuff all in one machine with motorized touch-sensitive faders organized in banks and with plenty of I/O, great conversion etc., is still stunning.

I have no doubt that this very same machine with really quite minor changes/upgrades could come out today for a much lower price due to advances in architecture/manufacturing...not to mention processing power... that are all common in even the most mundane devices and blow people's minds. We all know the troubled history of the various iterations of the AKAI nameplate, and how the DPS24 was both their showcase piece, and a sort of "hail mary" play at the same time. AKAI put everything they could into the machine, and it really should have been at least as iconic as their MPCs, or more so. Getting to know Sean just a little was icing on the cake.

Sure I'll still be stopping in here to see what's going on and all, but it's weird how much I've come to rely on the fact that the "DEEPS" was always there with the touch of a button to record at my whim, and so easily, that I didn't even have to think about what i was doing (*as my...er..."recordings" prove). What a machine, still!

-john
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lepages



Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Posts: 217
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow John, when I saw your response to Mister Bassie's post I was surprised. I hope you don't regret selling, your unit has so much history.
From my research only recently have computer interfaces started having the feature set of the DPS. I.E. mono switch, talk back switch, the ability to bypass the pres with balanced inserts and onboard dsp for low latency foldback mixes. Check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnvYbpN_46A.
I am building a studio now and have decided to keep the DPS and all my out board stuff. I will also be using Pro Tools but in concert with the DPS via lightpipe threw an RME HDSP 9652 card. If my project is being recorded or mixed on the computer I will use the DPS for monitoring and headphone mixes. I will also use the Rosetta 800 as a converter for both. This way I can wean myself off the DPS slowly, or never at all as I love it so.
FWIW way back when you released Blue Collar a successful musician friend of mine and I listed to it loud on my car stereo. It was a defining moment that really made me commit to recording on the DPS. Sometimes I wonder if that was a good thing, but who knows I could have been hit by lightening on my way to buy a Pro Fools rig.
Good Luck John, Dave.
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Joe



Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 1340
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's like the end of an era. When I was looking for a DAW, I came across a post called "Frankenstein" where John, Johny and Dan were very excited about what the DPS could do through it's flexible I/O routing options. Their excitement convinced me to buy one. I've never regretted it. In the end though, it was always the people that made this place special. Glad to have made some lasting friendships on this board. I haven't used my DPS in awhile, been busy with other creative projects but I had to check in when I heard that John had sold "Betty". Mr. Green

Edit: Just saw all my links are dead... man I haven't been here in awhile!
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Havlicek
Dps24 Guru


Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 8164
Location: East Hampton, NY

PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys. Recording on the machine has been nothing but joy for me, so I AM a little sad about seeing it go...weird. I was like this about my first VW Bug, but can't think of another time I grew so attached to a "thing". Anyway, the machine is all packed up and I'll drop it off at the UPS Store this morning.

-john
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Radley



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 172
Location: LA area

PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very sad to hear Hondo, but I understand that 'life is change' and even the best things don't last forever. I *still* haven't had the time to try my experiments using an SD card to transfer files from the deeps, but it will happen soon, and I will be one happy camper if it works out!

You have been a great proponent and spokesman for the DPS24, and are the sole reason I bought mine ~ you have inspired many people in many different countries, and I know you'll keep producing quality recordings regardless of what equipment you use. ;-)
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Don



Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 646
Location: Las Vegas

PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You have been a great proponent and spokesman for the DPS24, and are the sole reason I bought mine


Yes my thoughts exactly

John's status as "guru" was well earned and well deserved. Hope you drop in often here.
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Peakly



Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 1969
Location: Northern Oregon

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Well, It Is With Great Sadness... Reply with quote

Havlicek wrote:
I can't think of a single piece of consumer tech since the DPS24 came out that can rival it's longevity, performance and all these years later, it's continuing relevance. I will be forced now to figure out how to record to computer directly, but selling the machine is the only way I could motivate myself to do so. I just couldn't see putting in the effort when the machine was staring at me with that "come hither" look. Really, being able to record 24 tracks as 24 bit uncompressed .wavs (and virtually unlimited tracks with some easy methods), mix and even do some mastering-type stuff all in one machine with motorized touch-sensitive faders organized in banks and with plenty of I/O, great conversion etc., is still stunning.

...it's weird how much I've come to rely on the fact that the "DEEPS" was always there with the touch of a button to record at my whim, and so easily, that I didn't even have to think about what i was doing (*as my...er..."recordings" prove). What a machine, still!

-john


Hi John,

After reading about how highly you think of the machine, and that you think it's still relevant - why did you sell it?

Mychal
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Havlicek
Dps24 Guru


Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 8164
Location: East Hampton, NY

PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
i John,

After reading about how highly you think of the machine, and that you think it's still relevant - why did you sell it?

Mychal


Well for one, it was time to downsize. I've always used the machine alongside of a computer (doesn't everyone), and the two make up a fairly large "thing". Speaking of the computer, with the move to 64 bit, the machine no longer "talks" directly to computer. Even with the usb1 connection being slow, it was still something I relied on heavily...and it was way more efficient than burning a bazillion discs to move files back and forth. It's also true that things have changed on the computer front. There are many affordable, reliable and good sounding usb interfaces that a person can use to record to computer. I got a Focusrite that seems really nice. So, if the computer is going to be there anyway, why not record into it and keep it all in one machine. Lastly, the machine was perfect...not a single issue, so it made sense for it to find a good home where it would still be appreciated.

***The material the DPS24 records, will always wind up on a computer, whether for sharing, additional work, archiving, whatever. Losing the ability to connect directly by usb made this the obvious time to simplify.

-john
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Peakly



Joined: 21 Mar 2006
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Location: Northern Oregon

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Havlicek wrote:
It's also true that things have changed on the computer front. There are many affordable, reliable and good sounding usb interfaces that a person can use to record to computer. I got a Focusrite that seems really nice. So, if the computer is going to be there anyway, why not record into it and keep it all in one machine.

Makes sense.

Boy I'm going to have a hard time switching though when I get to that point - I'm so sentimental about stuff like this, all the hours spent with the DPS, and it just being, as you said, so rock solid, you can just count on it and concentrate on recording, or mixing, or whatever.

But now that I think about it, I also felt a connection with my Teac 3440. I spent a lot of hours with that too. And when we moved a few months ago I had no problem chucking it in the car and taking it to an electronics recycling place...

It's fun being on this site. It's been awhile! Good luck recording with whatever you put together!

Mychal
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cmaffia



Joined: 10 Jun 2009
Posts: 997

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now you will have the opportunity to get attached to a new work flow, new hardware, new software, etc. It always happens this way. Death is the same way, you move on and find new loves.
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Havlicek
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Location: East Hampton, NY

PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah Charlie...but it's a stooopid PITA. With a little messing-around, I've been able to get some test tracks recorded by just "trying this and trying that", but a lot of it seems ridiculously convoluted. The "immediacy" of the DPS24 was as big of a plus as any of it's other many major features. Having done even a little analog recording/mixing, a user could come to the machine and be up and running in no time, and that "hidden" aspect was something Sean and the developers specifically paid attention to. BTW, making the machine "act" like a traditional analog setup also did nothing to hamper the many capabilities the machine had because of it being a digital workstation. You could dig in and do as many things as you could imagine...even some that the developers didn't specifically have in mind...to get your work done, or you could stick to the basics. Computer DAWs are all trying to be all things to all people, many of whom have never done analog recording, so they almost have too many "possibilities" and those possibilities are somewhat buried in a UI that bears only a passing resemblance to analog mixing/recording.

-john
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cmaffia



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Havlicek wrote:
Yeah Charlie...but it's a stooopid PITA. With a little messing-around, I've been able to get some test tracks recorded by just "trying this and trying that", but a lot of it seems ridiculously convoluted. The "immediacy" of the DPS24 was as big of a plus as any of it's other many major features. Having done even a little analog recording/mixing, a user could come to the machine and be up and running in no time, and that "hidden" aspect was something Sean and the developers specifically paid attention to. BTW, making the machine "act" like a traditional analog setup also did nothing to hamper the many capabilities the machine had because of it being a digital workstation. You could dig in and do as many things as you could imagine...even some that the developers didn't specifically have in mind...to get your work done, or you could stick to the basics. Computer DAWs are all trying to be all things to all people, many of whom have never done analog recording, so they almost have too many "possibilities" and those possibilities are somewhat buried in a UI that bears only a passing resemblance to analog mixing/recording.

-john

John, depending on what hardware/software you are using, experiences may vary. Recording to DAW isn't a hit or miss thing. There are common steps to be followed just like any other piece of hardware or software to make it do what you want. It also may be overwhelming since you have been using the standalone model for so long. Got to be honest, for as amazing as the DPS24 is, in the beginning there was a learning curve even for someone like myself who used reel to reel/analog boards up till 2006. Like I've always said, there are great control surfaces out there that can give you some of that "immediate" feel you are looking for. Sounds like you are downsizing so some suggestions may already not be feasible if space is an issue. In my opinion, Cubase is the most easiest to use. It's extremely intuitive and the amount of VST instruments and plugins you get with the very affordable Pro version is ridiculous. A decent audio interface with Cubase and something like the CC121 may not duplicate the DPS24 experience but will certainly make your transition a lot less painful. You really have to starting thinking more "in the box" when it comes to DAW recording. If not, you will reject any modern home studio solution because it wont meet your expectation to duplicate your previous experience line for line. Simply put and like it or not, the Computer is the centerpiece of the new "home recording studio". Once you learn whatever DAW program you choose, I promise you will look back at any previous solution with fondness but wouldn't dare want to go back to it because you will better understand it's limitations.
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Havlicek
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't get me wrong Charlie, I'm not "lost" I pretty much get what's going on and am sure I'll be fine doing my simple recordings. Of course, any hardware DAW will completely bypass any configuration issues, because of the very nature of what they are.

Quote:
Like I've always said, there are great control surfaces out there that can give you some of that "immediate" feel you are looking for.


No! That would be another layer of configuration, and I have no problem using a keyboard and a mouse, which isn't at all what I'm talking about!

Quote:
Got to be honest, for as amazing as the DPS24 is, in the beginning there was a learning curve even for someone like myself who used reel to reel/analog boards up till 2006.


Well, different people will always have different experiences. Personally, I didn't even need to look at the manual until i wanted to see about mixing and automation...and even then, Sean made it all look immediately familiar.

Quote:
Once you learn whatever DAW program you choose, I promise you will look back at any previous solution with fondness but wouldn't dare want to go back to it because you will better understand it's limitations


Um...no :) This is a common talking point that I heard even way back when the DPS24 was first introduced. Those "limitations" are entirely user-specific, and it's a rare thing that I hear home recordings that couldn't easily have been done on an 8 track "portastudio". A good portion of what some see as limitations are really simply based on a set of expectations people have as to what they want to see a home recording setup be capable of. Personally, I really dislike my voice and recognize my limitations as a player, but I'm not looking to sound like Pavarotti or fix timing errors or even use loops and such (not that there's anything wrong with any of those things in the abstract). I really just want to record simply and easily...turn on the "machine", add some effects and screw with levels a little. I never came close to using all the features of "even" the DPS24. So, I can easily predict that, even after years of doing this stuff in the computer, I won't be looking back at the DPS24 fondly as a limited anachronism. :)

-john
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cmaffia



Joined: 10 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Havlicek wrote:
Don't get me wrong Charlie, I'm not "lost" I pretty much get what's going on and am sure I'll be fine doing my simple recordings. Of course, any hardware DAW will completely bypass any configuration issues, because of the very nature of what they are.

Quote:
Like I've always said, there are great control surfaces out there that can give you some of that "immediate" feel you are looking for.


No! That would be another layer of configuration, and I have no problem using a keyboard and a mouse, which isn't at all what I'm talking about!

Quote:
Got to be honest, for as amazing as the DPS24 is, in the beginning there was a learning curve even for someone like myself who used reel to reel/analog boards up till 2006.


Well, different people will always have different experiences. Personally, I didn't even need to look at the manual until i wanted to see about mixing and automation...and even then, Sean made it all look immediately familiar.

Quote:
Once you learn whatever DAW program you choose, I promise you will look back at any previous solution with fondness but wouldn't dare want to go back to it because you will better understand it's limitations


Um...no :) This is a common talking point that I heard even way back when the DPS24 was first introduced. Those "limitations" are entirely user-specific, and it's a rare thing that I hear home recordings that couldn't easily have been done on an 8 track "portastudio". A good portion of what some see as limitations are really simply based on a set of expectations people have as to what they want to see a home recording setup be capable of. Personally, I really dislike my voice and recognize my limitations as a player, but I'm not looking to sound like Pavarotti or fix timing errors or even use loops and such (not that there's anything wrong with any of those things in the abstract). I really just want to record simply and easily...turn on the "machine", add some effects and screw with levels a little. I never came close to using all the features of "even" the DPS24. So, I can easily predict that, even after years of doing this stuff in the computer, I won't be looking back at the DPS24 fondly as a limited anachronism. :)

-john


Well we are all entitled to our opinions and experiences John. I'm not going to get in pissing match over who's right or wrong my friend. I'm only explaining to you my experiences with current technology considering that our technical roots appear to be very similar. Good luck and have fun in whichever solution you end up with.
Charlie
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Havlicek
Dps24 Guru


Joined: 01 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Well we are all entitled to our opinions and experiences John. I'm not going to get in pissing match over who's right or wrong my friend. I'm only explaining to you my experiences with current technology considering that our technical roots appear to be very similar. Good luck and have fun in whichever solution you end up with.
Charlie


Sure, a bunch of this is about opinions and personal preferences...but "pissing match"? That would be about the last thing I'd be interested in. My comment was about your prediction about how I'd see all this down the road, and not about what's right or wrong. Certainly, a LOT of people would agree with you on this...just not me!

-john
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cmaffia



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Havlicek wrote:
Quote:
Well we are all entitled to our opinions and experiences John. I'm not going to get in pissing match over who's right or wrong my friend. I'm only explaining to you my experiences with current technology considering that our technical roots appear to be very similar. Good luck and have fun in whichever solution you end up with.
Charlie


Sure, a bunch of this is about opinions and personal preferences...but "pissing match"? That would be about the last thing I'd be interested in. My comment was about your prediction about how I'd see all this down the road, and not about what's right or wrong. Certainly, a LOT of people would agree with you on this...just not me!

-john


Just a figure of speech John. Although I'd still be interested in knowing how you felt about a new process after you had been using it for a while. Be well.
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Havlicek
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure I'll be fine with it all...until the first "unresponsive" or "driver update required" message happens! :D Oddly, I actually kind of like the whole "mouse and keyboard" thing, and don't quite get why people are so attached to control surfaces. So, there's a flipside to all this.

-john
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lepages



Joined: 04 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every so often we come a cross something that is a hard act to follow, or ruins anything that follows that is supposed to play the same role. A particular blonde comes to mind from my youth ;) ,the Kawasaki KZ1100R I once owned and of course the DPS24. I think that anyone that has really put in the hours on the DPS and mastered it will always find themselves wanting and comparing it to whatever DAW the are on. I personally believe that it won't be long before we see another "all in one" . There doesn't seem to be much difference between the current DAWS, software is almost becoming generic and seems to have plateaued. Where many of us are left wanting is the intuitive layout department and buttons, knobs, lights and faders. The DPS has a linear work flow that fosters the artistic side of engineering. Maybe cmaffia has found this with his Tascam and Cubase (I always thought that board was cool) I have a friend that seems to have the same kind of passion I have for the DPS for his Presonus studio live mixer in tandem with Presonus studio one software. Dave.
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Havlicek
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty much nails it Dave...at least for me. It's not at all like the DPS24 was just another system to record on. It was the King Kong of DAWs. It was fully imagined beforehand as to how it should work, and brought to market (with some early OS needs that were pretty quickly taken care of by a succession of ups) to do exactly that. It sounded great (still does) with it's linear recording, worked beautifully (mine only needed a hard drive replacement) and unlike every other similar machine, talked with computers over usb ...enabling all sorts of functions. The SCSI and ADAT capabilities took it even further if the user wanted that stuff.

Yeah, I'll be fine recording to computer, and maybe my recordings will eventually be fine, but I'm not going to look back on this and wonder what I ever saw in the thing.

-john
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cmaffia



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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Havlicek wrote:
I'm sure I'll be fine with it all...until the first "unresponsive" or "driver update required" message happens! :D

John, in my experience that specific scenario would be unlikely. The biggest PC/DAW issues usually revolve around software bugs in the DAW (I'm referring to major release versions, rarely had problems with maintenance patches). I have to say for as complicated as my setup is and with all the gear I have that require drivers, all of my XP & Windows 7 drivers worked perfectly in Windows 10. I nearly fell off my chair. It was a seamless upgrade!

Lepages - you are correct. The passion I had for the DPS16 and then for the DPS24 was replaced by my current solution. Not just because it was something new, but because the workflow built upon my DPS24 experience and comfort level. Towards the end of my DPS24 days, I was heavily syncing the DPS24 with Reaper and Reason via MIDI so I already had one foot in the PC/DAW door. When it's time for me to move on to another solution I fear it will be a step down..at least that's how I feel now based on what's available today. Personally, I'm hoping that the technology incorporated in the Slate MTi2 solution matures.
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atlpd3147



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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been out the loop of the current events on this forum and as I'm reading the posts here I'm thinking to myself, when I decide to go computer based recording 100% I will keep a dps24 around for the mere fact that it could be just the ticket for use during on location live recording sessions.
I know someone could do the same with a laptop and a interface but why buy those things when the dps could do the same with the added bonus of rock solid stability.
Just something I wanted to post up.
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Powergliide



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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still use the DPS for recording and practice for the band but have been using Nuendo 3 to mix tracks down and turn into a stereo interleave track, so I love the fact I can record 20 tracks at once with adat and then send to a folder on the computer and then load them all in Nuendo so the Akai is a great interface that has awesome pre amp imputs.
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cmaffia



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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2016 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

atlpd3147 wrote:
I've been out the loop of the current events on this forum and as I'm reading the posts here I'm thinking to myself, when I decide to go computer based recording 100% I will keep a dps24 around for the mere fact that it could be just the ticket for use during on location live recording sessions.
I know someone could do the same with a laptop and a interface but why buy those things when the dps could do the same with the added bonus of rock solid stability.
Just something I wanted to post up.

If you have one already (DPS24) then yes it's great for live recording. After I moved over to the PC I kept one of my DPS24's thinking I'd use it for it's preamps, tracking, mastering. After a while I realized that everything I needed I already had with my new solution and trying to incorporate the DPS was unnecessarily complicating things and taking up desk space.
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atlpd3147



Joined: 21 May 2007
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2016 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I still have a dps24. I'm currently looking at some other options and will likely change over to more of a daw platform to track and mix.
As computers get more and powerful I can see the pendulum of use swinging towards computer based systems. I still think the stability of hardware based recorders are more solid and purposeful which makes them more desirable during remote live session recordings.
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cmaffia



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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2016 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the good thing is that the computer power is already here and has been for a while. Just need to choose your platform: Windows or Mac.
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