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Still hearing static

 
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Fools Rising



Joined: 23 Feb 2009
Posts: 32
Location: Mississippi

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:35 am    Post subject: Still hearing static Reply with quote

I had a previous post discussing problems with static and I thought I was rid of it. Much to my chagrin, it's back. The strange thing is that it's here one day then gone the next and it's not that noticeable until it's burnt to a CD. My levels aren't too high and I've bypassed channel 1 because it has static in it. This was working until last night and then the static was back. It only appeared on the first 20 seconds of the song and then it was gone. What is going on here?
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Cidy Zoo



Joined: 19 Nov 2005
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Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you post a sound file so we can hear what you're talking about or can you convert one of these problem files into an Mp3 file and email it to one of us?

That would help a lot.

I gotta ask some of the same questions as before.

Can you view the wave forms of the stereo tracks you are trying to burn and see if they are clipping in a program like SoundForge?

Important: Is it the same each time you try to burn or is the static appearing differently (within the same project) with subsequent attempts at burning?

Important: Did you try the workaround from last time and did it indeed work?

Most important: Have you tried exporting a stereo mix that gave you problems with static after you burned it to a CD into your computer directly (without burning to CD) and listened to the file that way? Or tried burning a CD from a computer instead of the Deeps?

Do you have a copy of the manual?

Have you ever been able to burn CDs without static?

Do you understand why you would want to apply MBCX to both sides of the stereo mix?

Do you hear this "static" during quiet passages or even during silence?

~ Bill
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Fools Rising



Joined: 23 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I think it is in my playback system, but why does it play other cds fine? I can listen to it in my truck or surround sound and the static is not there! My ohms really don't match on my playback system but I thought it would be fine since it played other cds with no problem. This stuff is driving me crazy. Anybody want to but a dps mkii? I'll just pay somebody to record my band!

Here's some answers to your questions. The work around worked the first time, then I got static in the playback. The static sounds like a scratchy record but covers up the music on quiet passages. I have not tried exporting to a computer, I'll try that in the next couple of days and get back to you. I do own a manual and I don't understand how to move and make a cd from tracks 1 & 2 to 3 & 4.
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Cidy Zoo



Joined: 19 Nov 2005
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Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should be no problem selling it... although you won't be able to buy anything capable of replacing it and you won't get much studio time for $2000.

Besides, if it's the playback system, I don't think the Deeps is your biggest problem. You said the workaround "worked the first time, but then you got static", but you also suggest the problem is with your playback system (and I am inclined to agree). Not sure what you mean exactly that the "ohms don't match".

This what Lop suggested you do to burn:

After I mix down a project to two channels, I copy tracks 1 & 2 to tracks 3 & 4, make sure they play, then erase tracks 1 & 2 and make sure that I link 3&4 and pan hard L&R. Then when I use mbcx, or write to CD, I specify that the source L&R are tracks 3&4 (it can be any two linked tracks).

Seems pretty clear to me.

I can't help right now, gotta run. I'll check back later. Can somebody help this fella?

~ Bill
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Fools Rising



Joined: 23 Feb 2009
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Location: Mississippi

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have an 8 ohm amp and 6 ohm speaker load. Where do you assign to tracks 3 & 4? On the CDr page? I've tried that and it didn't turn out right. I didn't link the tracks though. Do they have to be linked? Besides if I copy track 1 it's still got static in it. Maybe I can copy track 2 to 3 & 4. And totally avoid track 1. Usually I just MBCX channel 2 and pan at 12 o'clock, but I don't get stereo that way.
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Cidy Zoo



Joined: 19 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dude,

I thought you said the tracks played okay in your truck (no static)?

Quote:
I can listen to it in my truck or surround sound and the static is not there!


Not sure exactly what you mean here:

Quote:
I've tried that and it didn't turn out right.


Read these sections in the version 2.0 Manual, actually I don't think the tracks have to be linked, but you do want hard left & right to achieve stereo.

Pg. 57 Edit Mode - Copy Function:

COPY Pressing COPY [F1] displays this screen: (see manual)
Pressing COPY [F6] or the ENTER key will copy the region to the clipboard from where it may be subsequently pasted and/or inserted elsewhere in the project.

In your case from tracks 1 & 2 to tracks 3 &4
Pg. 188 CD Recorder:

To the right are parameters that can be adjusted using the Q-Link controls. They are:
LEFT TRACK: Selects which track of the source project will be recorded as the left track on the CD. You may select any disk track 1-24.
RIGHT TRACK: Selects which track of the source project will be recorded as the right track on the CD. You may select any disk track 1-24.

In your case select tracks 3 for left and 4 for right. Instead of the default 1 & 2

I am not sure where/if you can specify which tracks the Deeps writes the stereo mix tracks to. I don't think changing the CD burning source has an effect on that. Someone else might know.

I hope that helps. Ask away if you're still confused.

~ Bill
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Fools Rising



Joined: 23 Feb 2009
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Location: Mississippi

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They didn't have static in my truck or maybe the speakers didn't pick it up. I copied the tracks just as you said in the previous reply and burnt it to a cd and the cd was blank when I tried to play it. I'll try it again. Sometimes I think I have a dud machine! I'll let you know tomorrow. Thanks for your help and patience. bonk
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Cidy Zoo



Joined: 19 Nov 2005
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Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's like this:

1) You mix down (with effects) your multi-track project into a two track "mix". That ends up in a new project that has only two tracks. It default names it "project name mix".

2) Open up "project name mix" and copy track 1 & 2 into tracks 3 & 4, then delete tracks 1 & 2 if you want.

OR:

3) Optionally, do it again only this time mix down with MBCX enabled. It's a multi-band compressor that will really beef up your tracks. Use the MCBX "Mastering" preset to start, and lower the threshold of each band until you just see the Comp start to kick in. Adjust your levels, (by looking at the master meters) to get a good level output (NO CLIPPING) with either the master gain, or the individual band output. It will create another project default named "project name mix 1"

THEN:

4) Open up "project name mix 1" (the one you just created with the MBCX) and copy track 1 & 2 into tracks 3 & 4, then delete tracks 1 & 2 if you want.

3) Go to CD and burn a "disk at once" format CD with left coming from Track 3 and right coming from track 4 panned hard L & R.

After you created your final two track "mix", when burning the tracks to CD, that's when you specify Tracks 3 & 4 as the source for the left & right in burning the CD.

Actually, now that I think about it, I'm not completely certain you even need to hard pan them L & R when burning, if the CD burn is splitting them as different L & R sources when burning. You would need to if you wanted to hear it play back those tracks in true stereo before you burnt them. You would also need to when using the MCBX so that it kept your two tracks separated to maintain stereo.

I hope that helps. Let us know what happens. It would be really good to get the wave files into your computer and see if the static is actually in the files or is coming from somewhere else in the signal chain as far as finding out what's going on.

~ Bill
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Fools Rising



Joined: 23 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got the track pasting working now and I've done it before. I don't know what happened the other time. And the CD burned tracks 3 and 4 properly. Here's the deal though and what I've been saying all along, when you copy track 1 it carries the static to track 3. This is very light static though. So I basically have to settle for mono. Now it gets crazy, every now and then on playback CD the static would be unbearable. Remember I said there no static in my truck and surround sound system, but it's there on my CD player playback system. I ran several tests last night and have determined that the CD player is not translating the burned CD properly. This has never happened before on other multitrackers I've had or any other CD for that matter. Strange huh. Here's how I figured out it's the CD players fault. I ran a dvd player in place of the CD player with the same amp and speakers and guess what. No overbearing static!!! Problem solved except for the light static on channel 1 when transferred to channel 3. Now what do you think about that?
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lepages



Joined: 04 Feb 2005
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Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This sounds very much like a problem I used to have on mine. It only seemed to show up on odd channels, it was only noticeable during quiet or silent passages in music and would screw up my tips and tails on mix downs. Once mixed down it was printed and was no longer random just THERE. Finally I got around to calling Dave at VST and he led me to focus on the ten small surface mount tan capacitors on the main CPU. These have been a problem on many units, in my case they were installed very poorly but were most likely faulty anyway and perhaps even counterfeit which is a real problem plaguing the electronic parts industry. If you live in the US Dave at VST can do this swap out with ease for a couple hundred bucks. If not as in my case these are common parts, I replaced mine with Kemet Capacitors Part # T491B106K020AT, 20V 10UF. for a total of $7.09. Cheep! Removing the CPU from the bottom of the Deeps was easy but although I have done my share of soldering in the Deeps, this proved to be way to difficult for me, this is a job for the microscope. So I had a friend who happens to do work on circuit boards every day do it for me and PROBLEM FIXED
lolup
I hope this helps you, Dave.
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Fools Rising



Joined: 23 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How did you get the number to VST? I googled it and nothing really showed up.
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thatbastarddon



Joined: 15 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.vstservice.com/index.html

phone# is at the top of the page-626-794-8196
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playinbass



Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 407
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi folks,

I haven't posted in a long time, but I've still been out here lurking and reading almost every day. Still have and use my MK11 without major issues, but doing most work in ProTools now, mainly because of the editing.

This solution for the "static" problem should be made into a sticky if possible.


I had this problem on no less than 3 DPS. It happened on 1 machine and then on multiple replacements that AKAI would give me. These machines all seemed to be from the batch that were floating around between the end of the MK1 days and the inception of the MK11.

I thought the only solution was replacement of the main board entirely, but if these parts are indeed the culprit (and no new boards are available) this could be the only cure for people who've got machines that exhibit this issue.
I used to do the work around too and had to avoid certain tracks because of the static. The static would get worse on the affected tracks when the machine warmed up and would increase in volume as the day went along.

Thanks very much for posting this important information Dave!!

Gerry

Quote:
This sounds very much like a problem I used to have on mine. It only seemed to show up on odd channels, it was only noticeable during quiet or silent passages in music and would screw up my tips and tails on mix downs. Once mixed down it was printed and was no longer random just THERE. Finally I got around to calling Dave at VST and he led me to focus on the ten small surface mount tan capacitors on the main CPU. These have been a problem on many units, in my case they were installed very poorly but were most likely faulty anyway and perhaps even counterfeit which is a real problem plaguing the electronic parts industry. If you live in the US Dave at VST can do this swap out with ease for a couple hundred bucks. If not as in my case these are common parts, I replaced mine with Kemet Capacitors Part # T491B106K020AT, 20V 10UF. for a total of $7.09. Cheep! Removing the CPU from the bottom of the Deeps was easy but although I have done my share of soldering in the Deeps, this proved to be way to difficult for me, this is a job for the microscope. So I had a friend who happens to do work on circuit boards every day do it for me and PROBLEM FIXED
lolup
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lepages



Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Posts: 217
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your most welcome Gerry,
But it's really Dave at VST coming to our rescue again, he spent a lot of time trying to get to the bottom of this and from what I understand it was only recently that he narrowed it down to the capacitors. Just imagine how difficult it must have been to diagnose this problem. DO IT YOURSELFERS BE WARNED this replacement job is best done by a skilled guy under a microscope, the last thing you would want is to end up with the same brand and batch of capacitors that your replacing or a cold solder in your work or even worse cooking your CPU. Also make sure that this is the fix for YOUR problem.
The capacitors I listed are the Identical spec but made by Kemet part # T491B106K020AT. Dave at VST actually bumps up the voltage to 25 from 20 but with the same micro-ferrett and case size but what brand I am not sure.
I have to tell you that hearing the DPS without that bloody static has made me fall in love with it all over again and what a cheap fix. To think of all those warranty mother board replacements and even worse those who paid for new ones out of pocket. Who's to blame? maybe AKAI's parts suppliers or the company Akai subbed the circuit board manufacturing to, well I guess that means Akai.. Thanks again to Dave at VST, its a wonder that a random problem like this ever got diagnosed at all.
Dave.
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shockwave199
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At request and because I agree- this will remain a sticky.

popcorn

Dan
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playinbass



Joined: 01 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to Dave and Dan (and Dave at VST of course) !

I expect someone will be very happy to find this fix here. If it were me I'd happily pay a repair tech to do this and keep a great machine going.

Other than this issue, I don't see any other hardware or software glitches that would put a machine down for the count. I really think this one is the "biggie"....the cost to replace those boards was just so expensive!

The occasional cold solder, bad hard drive and the well documented ICP fuse problem are easily fixed and with this important new info it's really possible that these machines can be kept going for a long, long time.

Awesome!!

Gerry
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45 North Keyboardist



Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 192
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:30 am    Post subject: MY STATIC SITUATION Reply with quote

Okay, I'm going to try and describe this and need some feedback from the group on this one. I've not posted here in a while but I'm having trouble with static but I'm going to try and describe it a little better.

It happens only when I'm recording.

There are two kinds of static that I hear:

The first kind is not the broad band white noise 20-20000 that you would think of when thinking about static. This seems to shift a bit like the noise that an air mattress makes when the air is let out or a sealed up zip-lock bag in the microwave... maybe even the sound of an exhaling balloon.

The second sounds like a microphone when you tap it or just turn on the phantom power. That plummmpf static sound. The only problem with the DPS is that I'm not turning on the phantom power.

Notably, I can see the sound register on the meter so its not just in the head phone channel. It's higher out in the sound. I have a tan/beige DPS.

Is this the same kind of sound that you guys are talking about?

Please note that I just tried a different Microphone and cable. I've tried switching it to different inputs and I get it most when there is silence. It's almost like the condensor microphone is compensating for the silence because in my headphones I can hear the room get louder even though I'm not adjusting anything... like the gain is going up in the Mic. If I sing for a moment or play into the mic then it crackles a little bit, sometimes, it pops or overdrives the circuit a spot and then goes away... not to be heard the rest of the take or track...

it comes back only when there is silence on that microphone channel.

Note: it doesn't sound like RF when you hear radio chatter in the background. I had a bad cable that did that once and this noise is definately not RF. Secondly, I have the ground and a bazallion dollar power supply protecting this thing too with filters.

When I by pass the inputs and record through the digital I/O using an external pre-amp I get the same thing so I'm guessing its not the pre-amp boards on the DPS....

Any suggestions?
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12records



Joined: 22 May 2014
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so i discover i have this issue, strange static whine noise but if i turn off the machine for an hour and back no more noise for few minutes...

so this tantalum caps (total 10) are in the CPU Board right? PC CPU BLK from service manual right?
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12records



Joined: 22 May 2014
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry guys can anybody point me where are these 10 small caps?
i think this is what u can call Main board, and service manual call
PC CPU BLK DPS24

i've found these 10

C60
C133
C134
C135
C136
C137
C138
C139
C140
C141








here u can download the HD pic
http://www.deep88.com/ftp/dps24.JPG
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12records



Joined: 22 May 2014
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i changed the caps and now the dps sounds amazing!
here a picture in case u need to make the same treatment

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ArenSouza



Joined: 01 Apr 2010
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:02 am    Post subject: cap replacement Reply with quote

Anyone know where to get these capacitors? And what their values are? I see they say 10 20 D on them, but I'm not having any luck finding them.
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12records



Joined: 22 May 2014
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lepages wrote:
Your most welcome Gerry,
But it's really Dave at VST coming to our rescue again, he spent a lot of time trying to get to the bottom of this and from what I understand it was only recently that he narrowed it down to the capacitors. Just imagine how difficult it must have been to diagnose this problem. DO IT YOURSELFERS BE WARNED this replacement job is best done by a skilled guy under a microscope, the last thing you would want is to end up with the same brand and batch of capacitors that your replacing or a cold solder in your work or even worse cooking your CPU. Also make sure that this is the fix for YOUR problem.
The capacitors I listed are the Identical spec but made by Kemet part # T491B106K020AT. Dave at VST actually bumps up the voltage to 25 from 20 but with the same micro-ferrett and case size but what brand I am not sure.
I have to tell you that hearing the DPS without that bloody static has made me fall in love with it all over again and what a cheap fix. To think of all those warranty mother board replacements and even worse those who paid for new ones out of pocket. Who's to blame? maybe AKAI's parts suppliers or the company Akai subbed the circuit board manufacturing to, well I guess that means Akai.. Thanks again to Dave at VST, its a wonder that a random problem like this ever got diagnosed at all.
Dave.
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12records



Joined: 22 May 2014
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:31 am    Post subject: Re: cap replacement Reply with quote

ArenSouza wrote:
Anyone know where to get these capacitors? And what their values are? I see they say 10 20 D on them, but I'm not having any luck finding them.


check on google
T491B106K020AT
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dps24user



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 126
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually I still have a brand new set lying aorund in case anyone is interested..Bought off ebay several years ago, but never got around to use them. Deeps is no longer here but the caps. still are :)
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Radley



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the CPU board accessible without removing it from the machine? In other words ~ if I take the back off the Deeps, is the CPU board visible and facing upwards?
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